why is it that whenever one is studying, lots of things to discuss come to mind? namely crack addicts, crack addicts who work as prostitutes and billy graham.
the former two and the latter are not related.
***
i've heard a great deal of hubbub about Billy Graham lately--especially after the article in Newsweek about him. So i decided to hop down to the corner news store and buy myself a copy. as i sat reading, waiting for class to start, my heart pounded and there was definite grating as i read two lines:
"i'm not a literalist [about the Bible] in that every jot and tittle is from the Lord."
and
" When asked whether he believes heaven will be closed to good Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus or secular people, though Graham says:' [...]it would be foolish for me to speculate on who will be [in heaven] and who won't...I don't want to speculate on who will be there and who won't.... I believe the love of God is absolute. He said he gave his son for the whole world, and I think he loves everybody regardless of what label they have.'"
i have to get studying...so i won't comment on the article right now. its available online (click the link above). i'd love to hear your opinions on it.
***we watched Black Tar Heroin in class today.
i cried on the way home.
now i am leaving to study. final exam #1 tomorrow. stressing over it seems so shallow compared to kids my age who are on the streets selling themselves at 20 dollars for a blow job and 40 dollars for the whole nine yards... in order to sustain their crack habits (and to keep themselves alive...since withdrawal could potentially kill them).
i dunno.
***
edit 11:30pm:
okay i know i'm supposed to be studying. but i was taking a break...checking out some news at desiringgod.org.
apparently during his sabbatical, Piper has been writing a book as a response to N.T. Wright on the doctrine of justification.
since talk of N.T. Wright's theology seemed to appear a great deal when i was interning this summer in Montreal, i am excited to hear that Piper is working on a book highlighting the fallacies of Wright's theology (namely pertaining to justification). can't wait!
21 commentaires:
i'm feelin you, lydia. i've got an exam on saturday, and i'm going to the willow creek leadership conference for the next couple of days :S (recall - i am not speaking at willow creek). And i just finished a paper for tomorrow, and I've got a takehome which i'm trying to finish by sunday.
Wanted to also comment on Billy Graham (more or less). At WinterConf05 I shared the Gospel with two older Catholic women. When presented with my belief (and the Bible's) that faith in Christ is the only way to eternal life, one of the women scoffed and remarked that she could hardly believe that the Jesus she knew would have actually said that. Furthermore, she implied that my current convictions were the result of a youthful zeal for fundamentalism, and that years and experience would correct them.
Will we end our days on earth like Billy Graham? A former man of faith, now unsure of the Authority of the Word he once preached?
One of my greatest fears is that I will end up one day living as though the prayers and studies and steps of faith that I am currently taken were all in vain.
How I pray that God would keep me.
your brother (who, admittedly, hasn't talked to you in a while :P) in Christ,
-Adam
dearest adam,
i loved your comment. man, why am i checking my blog when i should be studying?
at any rate, i'ma going to give you a shout sometime when this school shebang is over and done with.
probably when i'm home in edmonton with puffy cheeks and nothing to do. so stay tuned. because you're right. i seriously have not talked to you in ages. practically since the ice age.
one more thing....
the link on your name is evil!
down with cyndi wang.
I googled "Billy Graham and Universalism" and sure enough there's a lot of evangelical accusations out there against Dr. Graham. In the quotes I read, I didn't see anything that seemed really different from what evangelical Christians believe. Apparently he believes you can go to heaven without consciously knowing Christ, but that's really not far off from where a lot of Christians stand. He also doesn't believe that stances on inerrancy should divide Christians.
Anyhow, too bad I'm so evangelicalized that I'd rather comment Billy's liberal theology than on a real issue.
i don't understand your last sentence.
hey lyds
Wow when I read that, I was like, my world will fall apart if Billy Graham loses faith. But anyways, I browsed the article briefly (cause I should really be working right now), and here are some thoughts: When he says that not every word is literally from God, I (hope) think he means that different Christians can have different interpretations of the Bible... like was Jonah swallowed by a fish or a whale, was it the Red Sea that was parted or the "sea of reeds".... little discrepancies that shouldn't divide Christians the way it does sometimes. However, (again I hope this is what he means) from reading the article, Graham still believes and preaches the fundamental truths of God's Word. Whether Jonah was swallowed by a fish or a whale doesn't change the fact that he sinned against God and still had to bring a message to Ninevah. As well... for all the other religions getting people into Heaven, would not Graham's whole ministry be pointless if the Lord did not require each and every person to come to Him through His Son? I think that he means that God's Son is available for all people of all religions; His forgiveness and love is open to all.... He loves us all regardless of what we believe-- but that is why He wants us to have that personal relationship with Him. Anyways, I really have to get back to work.... another 8 hours of spreadsheets ahead of me.... hope that my comments had some value:S
I've been reading up abit on the whole EC movement, and it does seem to be pretty dangerous. it's like feeding people good food laced with poison, and some will never know it until it's too late =/
a few of my friends have been talking about all this stuff too, and i think i definately need to read up alot more on this stuff. it's definately scary stuff sometimes, but i think it is always prudent, especially in today's age with all these things going on to test it against scripture, and have scripture as the final authority, and to know that it is God breathed and alive...
11Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.
Acts 17:11 gives a good picture, of people who tested things against scripture, even Paul, who was someone probably pretty well-known already, his messages were tested against scripture. so we should become complacent and caught off-guard, and remember to test what we hear against scripture, whether it be Billy Graham, Piper, our pastors, our friends.
well talk to you later =p
-vince
lydia, you have too many good posts, and i have too little time to read and comment on them all. i shall peruse them when i too am finally done with this school shabang. (can you tell that i'm procrastinating?) but anyways the only emergent church thing came up on calgary project too so i most definitely want to read up on it. arghhh...so much to do...so little time. love you bella. p.s. i haven't talked to you in what seems like the ice age. the banff convo doesn't count.
hello lydia,
just wanna say hi!!! ^_^ and tell you that I safely arrived Japan....
hello lydia,
just wanna say hi!!! ^_^ and tell you that I safely arrived Japan....
read the article... d comments on ur post is rather misleading i think in terms of how Billy Graham has lost his faith. he hasn't. when he talks about not taking the Bible in a literal sense, well, if we really did take it literally, not a single person in this earth would have any of their arms, legs, mouth, eyes, any body part intact. remember the Bible does say that if any one part of ur body causes you to sin, it is better to chop it off rather than suffer the fiery consequence. i don't really see a lot of Christians taking this advice literally... although i have heard of one person who did chop off his arm (i think).
Hey, I'd have to agree with that bit that Monica says about the second statement. Although perhaps it may not have been the most Christian sounding thing for him to say "I don't want to speculate on who will be in heaven and who won't" I took that quote to mean that he thinks that salvation is available to all, not that everyone is going to heaven.
Definately sounds like he's not a Calvinist though (or at least a firm one.)
loco: i don't think my post is misleading at all.
i didn't comment on the article except to say that there was definite grating when i read those two statements.
AND
i did not say that Billy Graham has lost his faith.
AND
i know what literal means. but saying that he's not a literalist is different than saying that not every jot and tittle is from the Lord. to say that is to say that the bible is errant. which it is not.
I think loco was saying that the comments ppl wrote in response to your post were misleading, not your post...
at least that's how I understood it..
umm, okay, to comment on my comment :S - i did not mean to suggest i know the spiritual state of billy graham. if that appeared to be the case, i apologize. He's done a LOOOOT of great things (this is an understatement). My gut feeling is he is still a professing, Christ-loving Christian (no, i don't think my opinion matters that much).
haha.. i just spend a couple minutes writing.. pretty much exactly what lydia wrote above. but to restate what she said (and what i think):
a) Billy Graham is not unintelligent.
b) Most who do hold to the inerrancy of Scripture (if you don't know what that means - http://www.theopedia.com/Inerrancy) will say:
"I do not think we can interpret the Word literally all the time, because various genres in the text demand that we see figurative language, etc. in it." - eg. God is not literally a vine.
c) This is exactly what you guys (20somethings without the long experience of Billy Graham) have been able to state very clearly. So, it is an easy thing to communicate.
d) Graham did not say this. He said he doesn't believe the WORDS of the Bible are all from God (please let me know (and why) if you think that is an unfair statement)
e) From this we can conclude (not definitely, obviously, its just one quote) that Graham has changed in his belief in the Authority of Scripture to the point that it is harmful to the Church and to seekers.
f) If this is true, then this is a very BIG deal. Graham, as shown from the above comments, is widely respected and loved by people of all religions, walks of life, and has a LOT of authority. In North America, he has more authority than the Pope.
-----
I do like talking about Theology, and like to critique the theology of others (despite my being obviously not qualified to do so). That i will admit. However, I do not think I am doing this here. This is not just an argument for Seminary students, but something that should cause us to proceed with caution in advocating whatever Graham says from now on.
I apologize to ANYONE who might be offended by my style or diction, however, I do not apologize for bringing this to your attention.
-Adam
ps. apply the reasoning above to Graham's comment on salvation for other religions, and you get the same thing. These are very very very harmful words he speaks.
pps. i will now go write my exam :S.
YEAH ADAM!!!!!!!!!!!!
haha we already talked about this on the phone.
i concur.
can't wait to see ya next week!
hey Adam, I'm not quite sure that I understand this point
e) From this we can conclude (not definitely, obviously, its just one quote) that Graham has changed in his belief in the Authority of Scripture to the point that it is harmful to the Church and to seekers.
Just want to make sure that I'm not misunderstanding here, but does that mean that Graham's belief has changed and therefore has become harmful to the Church and to seekers or that his belief is that the belief that the Bible is the inerrant word of God is harmful to the church and to seekers?
hmm, i see how my wording was awkward. :P.
here's an attempt to explain:
- so, Billy Graham used to believe in the authority of scriptures. (http://www.billygraham.org/StatementOfFaith.asp)
- but this quote reveals that he doesn't even believe the bible is from God.
- if the bible is not from God, our faith is based on nothing.
- Graham is a very very very influential Christian
- So, many people are going to hear him say something that implies that our faith is based on nothing.
- this is bad.
Let me know if (and how) I am mistaken.
gotcha! makes sense now with all the concern going on in the blog. Thanks for clearing that up.
However, I would disagree with you if you were to apply that line of reasoning to the second quote about people going to heaven. Although perhaps his statement about "I'm not going to speculate about who's in heaven and who is not" is a little bit sketchy, the fact that he states that he beleives that God's love is absolute and that God sent His Son for the whole world only shows that he is no longer (if he ever was) a Calvinist.
K that makes sense. I would definatly have to agree with you on that one. I can't find any holes in that logic.
However, I do recall you saying that if you apply the same line of reasoning to the second quote, one could come to the same conclusion, but I disagree.
When I read that statement, although the bit about "I don't want to speculate about who's going to be in heaven and who's not" sounds concerning (and I see how you could apply the reasoning to THAT particular statement), he does go on to say that God's love is absolute and that He sent his Son for the whole world, regardless of their label.
However I look at that, I don't take that to mean that Billy Graham has suddenly become a universalist. That just looks like to me that he is not a Calvinist (if he ever was in the first place.)
DOH.... I thought that the first time I tried to post that, it didn't go through, thus the double post... my bad.
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