my hand is cramping from writing hand-written letters to accompany my support letters. ugh. so break time!! i will pose 2 questions for you...think about them and then reply :)
Question #1: Is speeding biblical?
i was talking to my friend andrew about this...and my first thought was Romans 13.
he then asked me...if the flow of traffic is going above the speed limit is it still unbiblical to speed? admittedly,...if the rest of traffic is speeding, then it is unsafe to drive slower than the flow of traffic....does it become biblical then?
OR what if its a clear stretch of highway...no cars...is it okay to speed THEN because its safe and there's no one around?
what do y'all think?
edit: i googled this issue...and this is a blog i found. some of the comments are good.
http://www.timlinden.com/blog/2005/11/27/speeding-a-sin/
Question #2: What is the girl's role when she thinks a guy might be interested in pursuing her and she is interested in him? (in a Christian context...although i'd be interested to hear what anonymous would say. always provides a good viewpoint that i may not have considered before)
Been talking about this with a couple of my girlfriends and guy friends. Seems to come up relatively frequently, since most friends my age are beginning relationships for the first time.
Should the girl just remain stoic and not give any hints? or should she show that she is interested too?
i talked to Maria and Dave about this during our car rides yesterday. Both weren't too sure..haha its a more complex question than it seems.
Maria said that some of her solid girlfriends who are in relationships would probably say that a little flirting would be a positive thing (flirting in a christian context...not in 'i am a floozy' context)..perhaps a better word would be what Pri uses "impress"... allowing the guy to impress her, and in turn, also impressing the guy.
Maria, however, also pointed out that most of her solid girlfriends are bubbly and would therefore need to go beyond that bubbliness to show a guy they were interested...whereas someone with her personality, who is more reserved wouldn't need to be as bubbly..and therefore, it depends on the person.
Dave pointed out that regardless of whether a girl hinted or not, if he liked her enough, he would pursue her anyways. I'd like to mention though, that Dave Wong is a SUPER solid, godly guy..and most guys are not like him...in that they might not act the way he does. He also made a good point that most guys don't even realize that a girl is hinting anyways...so it doesn't make much difference.
What do i think? well obviously, i'm not sure.. or else i probably wouldn't be asking the question. However, i do think that in 'hinting' the line can be easily blurred between allowing the guy to do the pursuing and pursuing the guy.
so what do y'all think?
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just to make it easier on myself...i'll wait for a super solid guy like your dave wong.
actually i have a better quote for ya from someone more credible.
"don't you ultimately want a guy who is attracted enough to pursue you, without needing hints from you?"~carloyn mahaney girltalk.blogs.com/girltalk/courtship/index.html
i think she wrote an entry on the exact thing that you're asking. i'm conservative all the way. if he's not attracted enough or courageous enough to pursue then he's not worth my time and or affections.
There's a difference nowadays between pursuing and...well...stalking. The problem with waiting for a guy to pursue you isn't that he might not be attracted or courageous enough, it's that there are *very* few guys that want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with them.
Dave's right that most guys might not realize if girls are hinting, but subconciously, I think we do. It's *very* easy to tell the difference between someone who *might* be interested and someone who *isn't*. That being said, "might" covers an extremely large range of emotions, on the girl's side...and you'd be hard-pressed to find a guy who hasn't pursued a girl at some point in his life who wasn't interested but led him to believe, conciously or not, that she was. Understandably, finding this out isn't easy, and as a result a lot of guys just become scared.
...basically, what I'm saying is that if a guy doesn't think a girl is interested, why would he pursue it? He'd have to be a sucker for punishment.
There is *nothing* wrong with letting a guy know you're interested...and I'm not saying you have to laugh loudly at all his jokes, wink when he walks by, or un-button your shirt a little bit more when he's around...you can be subtle. It's built in, I promise. We don't necessarily want to be pursued ourselves, but if you act the same to everyone and are secretly interested in someone, they won't know, and likely won't do anything about it.
Nobody wants to be 'pursued' by someone they're not interested in, but moreso, nobody wants to be the 'pursuer' in that situation - it's weird, uncomfortable, and...well, demoralizing.
...that might not have been worded as well as I'd have liked...but there you go.
yo. i think one thing that can be good is if the guy tries to gently hint that he is interested and then if the girl is also interested she hints back. that way they can figure things out without anyone getting too embarassed or damaging a friendship. but i also think that if two people like eachother then unless they really fight to hold them back their feelings will just start to appear naturally when they are together. but i guess it is different for everyone. persoanlly i would rather try to avoid bugging some poor girl who isn't interested in me. that can be messy
ya...I think I like elements of what both Anon and Ryan have said. I think it would be hard for two people how had feelings for eachother to not show it...at the same time, it is a foolish thing for a girl to act indifferent just because she wants the guy to do the pursuing...plus...flirting is good times!
wow. tough questions kid...
nice cardigan btw...or whatever it was...
it seems like i'm outnumbered. haha. i should just move south to the Bible belt where others share my uber-conservative views.
but also at the same time there are girls who have been led to believe that the guy is interested and "pursuing" when he isn't because sometimes guys can make very STUPID, careless, comments and do very stupid things even though they're not interested. it goes for both sides. what then?
Shelly, you're right. It should mos def be the guy doing the pursuing. A guy should be ready to take the hurt of rejection and not expect the girl to have to deal with it. I think that is all part of the sacrifice(s) that God calls men to make. Discomfort sucks and so does awkwardness, but they are not eternal. The sacrifices we make, in Christ, for our sisters in Christ ARE. I think the verdict is still out on whether or not I am sticking to my "girls shouldn't be indifferent" comment. I am only thinking about a guy who is thinking that he is almost out of the running for wife acquisition and some girl that acts indifferent just for the sake of it might get scratched (for the better or worse). What do you guys think of that?? unreasonable? I am open to critique or downright criticism...
good times.
it all comes down to patience. i would hold to the "girl waits for guy to initiate" stance. because if she "thinks" he's pursuing her, and he isn't, then her flirting will demonstrate her impatience. if he really is pursuing her, then he will make it evident at some point.
if he is not ready to make it evident, then he will wait until he is ready. the girl should also wait until he is ready, otherwise the couple (if they end up together) will continue to be led by the girl for the rest of the relationship.
it's really how you view initiative and leadership in a relationship. if you think the guy should be taking the lead, then he should do it from the start.
PS. please make your webpage CSS compatible with "real browsers" like Mozilla/Netscape. because the page renders all messed up in anything other than IE6.
just a suggestion... :)
hahah, silas i would LOVE to make it compatible, but i have no clue how....i'm not very good at HTML and CSS coding and such, so this is the epitome of my skill. LOL. if you want to help, i'd accept it! haha.
I don't really think anyone is ever "out of the running" in the general sense, but certainly with a particular person, you can be. Now, I can't really say anything from the Christian standpoint - but from a *me* standpoint, I agree with silas, to a point - I have no problem with the guy initiating things, but as far as "pursuing" goes, I guess I'm not entirely sure now what everybody means in this case. What guy is going to pursue something that isn't there? If he makes it obvious that he's attracted to a girl, or interested in her, and she doesn't give him any hint at all that she might feel the same, I do *not* think that there will be *any* "pursuing" happening - he's setting himself up for disappointment, and he's only (as far as he and everyone else knows) going to be making the girl uncomfortable with his "advances".
Also, to fix your layout:
Find this in your source:
#logo
{
background: #fff;
height:49px;
}
and change "49px" to "294px". That should do it, I think.
i think that she'll only need to give him "the look" and that will just say it all
hmm. hahaah. this post is getting a lot of responses. I definetely think the guy should be the one initiating. but also i dont think its any surprise if i say that girls a lot of times DO get impatient. If you are interested I would say that most of the time it shows, whether or not you want it to. And also after talking to a couple guys (christian guys too :p haha), its true that a lot of times guys dont want to take that step or pursue if the girl doesn show interest or is completely indifferent. I think I agree that if you are interested in someone it is ok to show that. It doesn't mean youre commiting to marrying them or anything.
And flirting...hahah. Hmm. I think flirting just HAPPENS when 2 people are interested. I guess, harmless flirting, if you can call it that is ok. and as Josh puts it..."fun times" :p. It's a way of letting someone know that you arent like completely turned off by them. But then i was thnking about this jsut yesterday. I don't even know if it makes much sense. But "unintentinal flirting". This could be a really stupid question but I'm asking it it anyway. Is there such a thing as unintentional flirting. Can you be flirting and not know it?
josh- when i talk about pursuing i'm not talking about a guy desperate for a wife any wife and is crossing out potentials. i'm talking about "hey that's exactly the kind of woman that i'd want to marry," not some afterthought. so in that respect i think he should be the one to be a man and do the right thing.
silas- YES!!! someone on my side! w000t w000t! not that this is a competition or anything..... i stick by my "unless it's verbalized it's nothing....and even then...it could change"
pri- there definitely is unintentional flirting! some ppl flirt w/o knowing it.
ugh! lydia you have opened Pandora's box this time with your post! lolz.
i) I would just like to ask, and I'm not even trying to be facetious, but what is flirting? How do you define flirting and having extroverted tendencies? Would comments that demonstrate appreciation of a girl's beauty considered flirting... or can it possibly be a sincere case of a man being true to the "honesty is the best policy" rule?
ii) I think you can do unintentional flirting, especially when you don't know the rules of flirting and/or disregards the flirting rule because you think it is a stupid societal convention. What's the difference between normal flirting and Christian flirting? Seriously!
iii) I agree that the guy should be the one to initiate. Nothing like the "thrill of the chase". The harder to get, the better (guys, read Taming of the Shrew... it might give you good hints as a nice book on how-to's.. hehehe) It kinda is rather turn-offish once you know the girl is into you. Sometimes. If I ever find out that the perfect woman of my dreams likes me, I will be on my knees asking for her hand in marriage in a heartbeat. However, with that being said, there's a fine balance that we walk between pursuing and being considered a creepy stalker. So, if girl is an ice queen, I'm stopping. Not because I don't think she's worth it... but simply because of practical reasons like I don't want a judge telling me I have to say 30 feet away from a certain individual, and having the reputation of creepy stalker. Plus, when this person is also someone you consider a friend, and this person comments on how she can't have guys in her life who'd just be willing to be friends and that's it, and why things have to be complicated by the guy liking her, and this happens to be a guy that you like... well, the chances of him piping up and saying Hey, I like you goes down rather severely. (she's in a relationship right now and not with me...)
iv) I'm pretty sure you can show someone you're interested without being a floozy. Body language says much...unless you can control your body like a machine and use it like a tool to convey the emotions that you want to show and not the emotions that you are actually feeling. It takes much effort and discipline to control your mind and emotions and affect your body...but it can be done! So, if you get a person like that... well sucks for you. These would be the people who "lead people on" and know it and secretly revelling at their powers of seduction as they play mind games with people.
v) In a society that has dispensed its protocols on dating, this whole thing is a labyrinth of confusion. I want to go back to the olden days, when if I presented you a red flower, it means I want you and can you be mine. If i asked you out for a movie, it's because i liked you. But, with the whole everyone is equal thing, nothing means anything anymore. I want to go to a movie with you could mean a)I'm interested in you or b)I want to go to a movie with you. Is it a or is it b? ugh!
vi) If you're a Christian woman between the ages of 22 and 26, please send your profile along with references and a 5x7 picture to...
vii) and i've ruined any chances of getting a Christian woman who has no sense of humour... YES! lolz.
Loco...not so loco at all.
I love how entirely all of the comments are about the 'pursuing' question, and not one is about the speeding question. =->
I suppose it is more interesting than speeding though. :P
On the topic of speeding, it's the law because it's safe, it's not just arbitrary - if the flow of traffic on a freeway is 90km/h and the limit is 80km/h, you're endangering not only yourself but others by going slower. If it's a road where you're in danger of driving off the road, or sliding out of control, by all means, slow down.
If it's an open highway and the limit is 100...go 100. You don't know who you're endangering besides yourself, and if you have someone else in the car, you can't just be thinking about yourself. I haven't been the best at it in the past, but I think I'm getting better.
wow. there sure are a lot of comments.
haha kim, i wish you could give the LOOK right now. or i wish i had a picture of the LOOK.
that would be AMAZING.
shelly, THIS IS A COMPETITION! what were you thinking. ;) wow, I obviously haven't thought about this at all...it that a bad thing? I might just be a coward and join the team with the most votes so far...looks like silas and shellieos...Kim, THE LOOK. extended eye contact...ya...serious stuff there...
Lydia, it surprises me that you are undecided on the speeding issue when I had to force you to receive the New Ams tune...
I just realized that my last comment totally dicredited my status as a man...what was I thinking...soooo indecisive! I am sticking with the guy taking the risk and also that ladies need not play hard to get unnecessarily!
I'm out!
well its just that speeding has many more grey areas than does receiving the new ams tune. or at least in my books.
i think that two days ago i would agree with shelly...
now i think after talking to many people and reading these comments that i do side with mr. joshua robinson. and anonymous. loved your comment anonymous!!
Congratulations, your page works in Firefox :)
YAY!!! thanks anonymous!!!!
hmm, i think the problem with this question i have outlined is that the definitions are not clear within the wording.
for example...what defines pursuing?? when does pursuing begin? the line is blurry.
and like others have already asked...what is flirting? what is giving hints comprised of?
anyone have an opinion on this?
hey! sweet!! your blog works on netscape now too! hurrah!!
haha thank anonymous for that :)
i think we WAY overcomplicate things sometimes. sometimes relationships (and how to "do" relationships) aren't cut and dry -- relationships are something that are often fluid and organic.
ok, so what does that mean? i think it means that it may be different depending on the people and on the social context. i used to be "you should do it this way" (as a result of being fully suibians) but i realized you can't go to either extreme. if you're too rigid (or too "floozy" as you say ... by the way, awesome word, hah) you may miss out on something great.
i for one get really frustrated with the "step by step" "paint by numbers" way to do relationships.
... although, i guess that's a little off topic. i'm actually still all for the guy intiating, but to get down to the nitty gritty of "should a girl respond" or not is being a little anal retentive i think ;) that doesn't leave you with much but isn't that the beauty of pursuit? if we could know it all, if we knew for sure, then the pursuit wouldn't be nearly 1/2 as fun. i think part of the greatness all this is the mystery, the risk, that's involved in pursuing "that girl." u know what i mean?
PS: i know this is prolly like heretical but ... weh!
"The beauty of pursuit." YES, da-ren. Mystery, risk, good times.
aaiyeee, how come more ppl didn't write bout speeding?
how bout this, guys should flirt with girls by speeding...
anyhow, i'd just like to say i agree with darren and most of the other smart ppl, guys initiate, girls respond, enjoy the process. (then they should ask, do i want to marry this person. if not, back that bus up)
speaking of buses. anon and i are in similar boats. safety and respect for passengers are the biggies. i'm safe. but yeh, i need to take more hints when i'm bugging passengers.
OH. and again, to increase the complexity of the question, all us speeders need to ask ourselves the question, is "i'm still being safe" just a cover-up so you can have the excitment of speeding. If yes, you're in sin my friend (Rom 14:23).
wat if i have faith in d excitement of speeding?!? does dat mean, i'm not in sin?!? :P
beauty of pursuit = thrill of the chase.
summer's almost here. boys, itz hunting season! hehehe
*is dat loco enuf 4 u anonymous? sorry i disappointed u wid mah last post... i do have mah "serious" moments...hehehe*
oohhhh.... and chasing involves speeding...
make sure derz no running away from u. hahaha
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