i loved the comment anonymous made a couple of days ago on my blog--i'll quote it here, and then respond to it, because i thought it was a great statement. i don't agree with the full statement, but i love it nonetheless. ( i hope this is okay anonymous!)
I think, and this isn't an attack on you or anything like that, that to a degree that happens with a lot of people, but not specifically gospel. It could be music, or reading, or writing, or whatever - just something that seems to explain "what it's about" for you.
I don't think, at this point in my life, the gospel will ever do it for me.~ anonymous
i agree with you, anonymous, in that this desire to keep on discovering, to keep on creating, to desire more occurs with a lot of people--not just Christ-followers who decide to place their trust in God and, consequently, the gospel. as a musician/dancer (if i can call myself these things), there is a mystery in music and dance, something that i can't explain; in the course of human history, i don't know a single artist (i use this term liberally to encompass all types of human creators/inventors) who can truthfully say they have reached the climax of art, and life. i don't know any human being who can say that there is nothing more to be discovered. this, to me, is the process of life--searching and longing for truth and ultimate beauty. and you are right--it isn't a desire that is solely confined to the Christian world.
at the same time though, i would say that this desire to discover, this desire to know MORE, just points to our own inadequacies of reaching perfection. because the artist is rarely fully satisfied at his painting, the musician always knows that there exists something to be tweaked, the dancer knows that creating lines with the body is an art that is never perfected--EVEN though we can come close. there always seems to be something lacking. something wanting. No matter how beautiful the things we create are, we always have a desire to create more..to become better...SO that we can KNOW perfection.
to me, these desires to know more, these hopes of reaching perfection, point to a deeper need we have.
and i believe that this deeper need is a relationship to a Perfect Being. to the Ultimate of ultimates. to the Author and Perfecter. You see, i believe that we were created with an innate longing to KNOW the truth. to have a relationship with the Perfect God. to desire the most magnificent artist of all time. On our own, we can hope and aspire to become perfect--but ultimately, there must be an acknowlegement that no matter how hard we try, we seem to be tainted, if only minutely.
but the beauty of the gospel is that as humans, we CAN have a relationship with Perfection. But, it doesn't come as we might think it would; it doesn't come by US becoming perfect. Rather, this relationship stems from accepting that Perfection reached down to us. that He became a human and lived a perfect life in an imperfect world, SO that we could know Him. And, not only did Jesus live a perfect life, He also paid the penalty for all our imperfections by dying as a final sacrifice. He did this so that we might be seen as perfect...clean... so that we could exist in eternity with the Perfect God. this to me, is beautiful and magical.
i know that there are those, like yourself, anonymous, who say that the gospel won't do it for you. and so i'd ask you, not as an attack, but as a genuine question...what do you consider to be the gospel?
because, if i might be blunt, i believe that the gospel is the ONLY thing that will do it for you. the thing is, just like a piece of music, or a piece of art..it won't "do it" for you, if you do not allow it to. if a listener doesn't let herself become vulnerable to the music, and always remains critical, keeping her guard up, the splendour of notes will never be allowed to overwhelm her senses. and its the same with the gospel. its an invitation that God has given us. but we have to make a choice and take it. until we've tasted the cake, its not for us to make that call that the cake couldn't possibly taste good. admittedly, swallowing the gospel is hard--its an acknowledgement that we are not capable of attaining the mark of perfection. its an acknowledgement that we, as humanity, are needy. these are hard things to admit..but beautiful things, because with the gospel, comes the taste of liberation and freedom. the price is worth it.
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The reason it could never is precisely because of what you said - I won't allow it. I think that the same things that make you feel "liberated" and "free" do the exact opposite for me...turning my life over to someone else implies giving up; I'm not perfect, but I don't think *anyone* is. It's definitely an ideal to strive towards, but that's it, as far as I'm concerned.
It's pretty bloody obvious that humanity is needy; you definitely don't need anything other than a knowledge of what's going on in the world today to see that. Obviously religious organizations are doing a lot to help that, but it's also easy to see that a lot more could be done. I can't really argue with anything that makes people less selfish, although I think it's an easy way out if things don't go your way, sometimes.
If I may ask, what denomination are you / is your church?
amen.
lyds...what a lovely perspective, eloquently described. :) as a fellow musician (though definitely not dancer!), i couldn't agree more.
for anonymous... "through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death." (Romans 8:2)
the way it is outlined in the Word, should you choose to accept it, all humans belong to one of two camps, or two "laws." which would you choose? can you really ever be in control of your own life? what does it mean to be truly free?
...just some worthwhile questions to ponder :)
anonymous, i hope that my blog didn't sound like an attack on your comment--it wasn't supposed to.
why would you say giving up is a bad thing? or a more negative thing?
and hmm...i would say that i am denomination-less... i've grown up in Alliance churches...but in my spare time, i frequent churches of many denominations--presbyterian, pentecostal etc. As a caveat, what i say on my blog isn't representative of one denomination or another..but rather, are thoughts on christian spirituality.
:)
Oh - I didn't see your other question - as far as what I consider the "gospel" to be, I'd say, in this case, it would be more than just the "word of God" (or more specifically, the word of God as transcribed by Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John), but the idea behind it. It's not as if I haven't been exposed to any of this - there are relatives and ex-girlfriends who are surely disappointed at my opinions on the matter (and have tried to change them) - but it's just not what I'm about, I suppose.
...that was probably a terrible answer. Apologies.
in my opinion, the gospel isn't a way of life. It is not something that will improve your life or make you happy. It never promises this. it is also not at means to attain freedom, peace, and liberation. it isn't a lifestyle that you can either choose to align yourself with or not. don't get me wrong, romans 5 tells us that the result of justification by faith is peace, joy, and hope. I would have never trusted and believed in the gospel if I didn't think that it was the only way that I could be spared the just, and awful, and terrifying, and catastrophic wrath of God. (ie. rom 3). anonymous, I don't blame you that the gospel isn't what you are about. seriously, who would ever want to give up their desires, plans, control over their life, and whatever else and hand it over to someone like Jesus. it indeed is foolishness. it is a wonder and a miracle that anyone dedicates their life to this foolishness. but to those who are being saved it is the power of God.
very well written post Lydia!
I hope your doing well this summer and having a good time :)
-vince
I like this
"it won't "do it" for you, if you do not allow it to. if a listener doesn't let herself become vulnerable to the music, and always remains critical, keeping her guard up, the splendour of notes will never be allowed to overwhelm her senses. and its the same with the gospel. its an invitation that God has given us."
And to anonymous and anonymity, let me tell you i've been through it, and just as what the quote i put up from lydia's site, it's all about letting go. But it takes the right time to understand it.
"But it takes the right time to understand it." is a pretty condescending statement, and one I don't agree with at all. I think it takes the right kind of person, and that person isn't me. Believe me, I've "been there".
...I can't make that sound less hostile. But it wasn't supposed to be, so...take it as you will :P
hmm... I love these thoughts. I feel like I've just dropped into a random conversation, but I just wanted to give props to anonymous... you are still open as you seem to be willing to discuss and present your honest opinions in spite of some perhaps negative things in the past (?). I respect that.
Thanks. I'm not sure if anyone is following, but I guess I can add another two bits to the conversation. I played in a worship band for a year, and definitely met some really great people...but also saw some things that were pretty scary. It was a combination of the experience with the band (and the people involved with it) and just everything I was going through at the time, I suppose, that really cemented it for me - I wasn't super involved in it before the experience, and afterwards everything just seemed so profoundly *silly*. I don't know what other word to use - the things people do "in his name" aside, I couldn't find anything appealing about it anymore.
hehe, i'm following...i just need to sit on these thoughts for awhile.
Hiya Anonymous.
I'm also jumping into this conversation and I hope that you'll excuse me :)
I'm not sure what you've experienced with the people in the worship band and in your life, but speaking for myself, I think I can understand why you find it silly and unappealing. I've grown up in Korean churches where churches have split because they didn't like the land that was being bought for the new church building. I got quite angry at people because I was like "what the hell? Why are you so petty that you will split a church and create such negative experiences for people because of a stupid piece of land?"
But I stuck it out (partly because my parents made me go and partly because I figured I'd try and sort things out before abandoning it) and I came to this conclusion. I refuse to let the idiocy and imperfection of people's ability to reflect God to turn me away from him. I realized that if I get bogged down in the miserable failure of Christians (myself included) to properly show who God is and how much he loves us, than I would never take the time to get to know who he REALLY is.
I'm sure that you would claim that it's unfair that I don't get to know you better because your best friend has been a bastard to me. In the same way, don't let people get in the way of you understanding God better.
The gospel, as best I understand it, is the way for you to do that. For the gospel is the message that God gave to us humans saying that he wants to restore a relationship with us and has provided a way through Jesus Christ. And what better way to understand and get to know someone better than to take their open hand and engage in a dialogue with them.
hmm is this jonathan park??
and i definitely loved that comment.
Jonathan - I definitely know what you mean, and it wasn't exclusively the experience with the people that made up my mind, but it was definitely a catalyst.
What it boils down to is this - I can't accept the idea that God would be omnipotent and omnipresent and yet only "reward" (with a trip to heaven, natch) those who accept and worship him. It seems to me that living life by what many term "Christian values", i.e. loving thy neighbour as thyself, with no provocation other than believing that that is the proper way to live would almost be better. It's hard for me to think of it any way but this, as Albert Einstein put it:
"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy,
education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death."
Essentially, "doing the right thing when no-one is looking" seems to be make more sense, and would better reflect the way Jesus led his life (yes, I realize the irony here, but I'm making a point :P), than doing so because of what God wants you to do.
God doesn't just want you to do the right thing, he wants you to *want to* to the right thing.
I suppose I got a little off track, but I think there was a bit of a segue. People get so involved in doing or believing something because they're told to, and don't end up thinking about it themselves. Obviously this doesn't apply to everyone, as clearly you have your head on straight - but the entire thing doesn't appeal to me.
Okay, I realize that might not have really explained anything further. But I have to go eat lunch.
I agree anonymous. Christianity as a religion or a set of rules is suffocating and ultimately pointless. Pointless because I want to find a way to God but I try to attain this "way" by following a bunch of good rules. Doesn't that just make me the saviour? I was able to follow the rules, therefore I can find God. wait, no, that makes me god. stupid me. stupid me indeed.
I guess the changing point has been understanding God's grace for me through Jesus Christ. That I can't in fact follow any rules completely, nor consistently but that it's okay. I'm not supposed to because he knows I can't. By his grace, all I have to do is trust that Jesus makes me perfect and that I don't have to strive to be "good enough".
so I'm with you. being told to follow a set of rules, or being told of a God that wants me to want to do something is pointless if I never encounter him.
If anyone is still following this... yes Lydia, this is Jonathan Park :) Hello.
To anonymous, you know, a good book I'd recommend you read is The Problem of Pain by C.S. Lewis. He addresses what you just mentioned beautifully.
The general gist? I will reply to Albert Einstein's comment by saying "Where did sympathy, the desire for knowledge (i.e. education), and the desire for social interaction (i.e. social ties) come from in the first place?" Truthfully, I highly doubt that it came from humans themselves. If the desire to do good comes from God, then can we not conclude that God is good? If God is good, is it not worth discovering more about him.
But C.S. Lewis is much more erudite on this topic than I. Let me know what you think after you read the book. (parkdom86@hotmail.com) (if it's not too late to respond to this)
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